their seats in it by their conscientious | Although we had the largest Navy in the objections, and that they would consult the feelings which prevailed very generally throughout the country on the subject.

eye.

CAPTAIN SCOBELL wished to explain that his having moved the adjournment on the previous evening was not from any want of deference to the House, but he knew that several Gentlemen on his side were desirous of addressing it, and he himself had risen five or six times without having had the good fortune to catch the Speaker's He himself wished to make a few observations on behalf of the city he represented (Bath), which had sent a petition against the Bill, signed by 1,500 persons. Upwards of a thousand petitions had been presented, of which 99 in every 100 were against the principle of the Bill, and not against the ballot. The hon. Gentleman | the Solicitor General for Ireland had alluded to the circumstance that a French fleet had reached Killala, on the Irish coast, during the late war; but the hon. Gentleman forgot to state that that fleet was entirely dispersed, and the greater number of the vessels captured. It was with great astonishment that he had listened to two nights' long debates on this subject, and had scarcely heard the Navy spoken of; or, if it was spoken of, it was only to say that under present circumstances, and with the advance of science, the utility of the Navy had passed away.

world, and although other nations, in con-
sideration of our insular position, did not
attempt to compete with us in this respect,
yet we wanted to vie with the military
forces of other nations; and this Militia
Bill, if it was passed, would be the first
step in that direction. He took it for
granted that whatever nation had the com-
mand of the sea would usually be success-
ful in its operations, and certainly in land-
ing its troops; while a nation whose enemy
commanded the sea would certainly have
no success in expeditions on a large scale,
if in any. Owing to our having the com-
mand of the sea, we had always effected
our purposes when we wanted to attack
any spot; and had by this means taken
Malta, the Cape of Good Hope, and various
colonies scattered over the world. It was
through our naval power that Wellington
first set foot in Portugal, and that long,
expensive, and glorious war was sustained
by the supplies and recruits which our
command of the sea enabled us to send
there. And, on the other hand, notwith-
standing all the large military resources,
the wealth, and skill of France, yet, from
not having the command of the sea, she
was not able, during the twenty years of
the war, to obtain any footing in Ireland,
Scotland, or any part of our dominions.
The noble Lord the Member for Tiverton
(Viscount Palmerston) had in his speech
the other evening commented on the addi-
tional means and facilities of attack which
steam had given to our enemies. He
(Captain Scobell) replied, that it increased
our means of defence to at least an equal,
but he thought to a greater extent. The
noble Lord had also remarked upon the
means which the French possessed at
Cherbourg for the embarcation of an in-
vading force, and upon the rapidity and
facility with which they might cross the
Channel; and he said that all our forts
and our gun-brigs (the noble Lord forgot
that our Navy did not wholly consist of
gun-brigs) would be unable to prevent an
enemy from landing who was determined
to do so. But even if such a force as the
noble Lord contemplated could get across
the Channel, the landing of 50,000 or
60,000 men, with the material and bag-
gage of the army, would occupy not hours
but days, and before that could be accom-
plished our naval force would arrive and
cut their fleet to pieces, while the few
troops which might have landed would be
obliged to surrender themselves prisoners.

The Solicitor General for Ireland (Mr. | war.
Whiteside) had, in his speech on the pre-
vious evening, talked of the French fleet
having escaped from Brest during the late
war; but all the escapes from our blockad-
ing forces during the late war occurred
just at the heel of a gale, and before our
force, which had been driven off, had been
able to resume its position. That, how-
ever, would not do in the case of an inva-
sion, because, in order that they might
effect a landing, the enemy's fleet must
come out in fair weather. It had been said
that we were placed at a disadvantage with
respect to France by the narrowness of the
Channel; but he contended, on the con-
trary, that the narrower the Channel the
more easily was it watched. He believed
that if there was any real alarm of inva-
sion, a few thousand men on board steam
vessels would, with the present force of
France, prevent any attempt being made.
He would put 8,000 men (seamen, officers,
and marines) on board twenty-four steam-
ers-three of 60 guns, five screw frigates,
six first-class steamers, and ten second
class; and with this force he believed we
should be perfectly safe. He quite agreed
that sailing vessels could not do the service
that steam vessels could, and he, therefore,
thought that the naval force for the defence
of our coast should be composed entirely
of the latter description of vessels. But
he might be asked whether he proposed to
add these 8,000 men to the Navy? Now,
to a considerable extent, he agreed with
the hon. Member for the West Riding of
Yorkshire (Mr. Cobden), who said that we
might bring home from various foreign
stations a sufficient number of vessels and
men for our home defence. But the fact
was that we had even now at home the
force to which he had just referred. We
had now three line-of-battle ships at Spit-
head, and one at Plymouth, having on
board 3,350 men, besides the Leander and
Arethusa frigates, and some other vessels,
whose crews would together make up the
8,000 men he required. Now, if it was
thought that an invasion was imminent, all
that would be necessary would be to place
these men in steam vessels, and place
them at such stations along the coast as
some skilful commander might advise.
The same Navy which had hitherto kept
the enemy from our shores, would, if it
was encouraged, kept in an efficient state,
and stationed in those places where it was
wanted, continue to defend us from any in-
vasion, whether in time of peace or of

Napoleon, although he had the means of coming across the Channel, did not attempt to invade us, because he said he could not hope to succeed unless he had the command of the Channel for a week or ten days. Let us take care that we never, by sending our forces away in different directions, and not keeping sufficient at home, left our shores unprotected, or that for a short time an enemy had a superior force in the Channel; for in that case this country would be no longer impregnable. He would recommend the House to expend the money which it was proposed to lay out on this militia upon the completion of our harbours of refuge, and in the construction of an additional one between Portsmouth and Dovor, which are 120 miles apart; he believed that a suitable site had been recommended near Dungeness. Nobody felt more strongly than he did that every one would be startled at the feats which would be performed by steam vessels should war occur; but these feats would not be on one side alone; the power of steam would give us new means, both of annoyance and defence, and would enable us to laugh to scorn the fears now expressed of our vulnerability. The hon. Member for Carlisle (Mr. P. Howard) had on a former evening said, that, having voted with the noble Lord the Member for London on the first Militia Bill, he felt bound to vote for the second Bill. Now, he (Captain Scobell) had also voted with the noble Lord on the division on the first Militia Bill, because it was evident that the Motion to strike out the word "local" had an object beyond that contained in its terms, and that its real purpose was the one that it answered. He then voted with the noble Lord too, because that was simply a Motion for leave to bring in a Bill, and he understood that it was very rarely that that was refused to a Prime Minister. But he should have voted against the seccond reading of that Bill, had it reached that stage, and he, therefore, felt that he was perfectly at liberty without any breach of consistency to oppose the present Bill. He believed that the subject of the efficiency and capability for defence of our naval force, if properly stationed, was not fully understood, or, if understood, was not fairly admitted. He would impress it upon the Government that before they entangled themselves with this Bill, which was evidently unpopular with the country, they should give greater facilities for the transfer of any reasonable number of men

into the steam vessels now fitted out, and | He quite agreed with hon. Members who should increase the available steam force; said that it was the interest of France to if they thought the midnight marauder remain at peace. The immense advances might be expected on our shores, let us that she had made since the peace in the meet him on that element where victory was arts of civilisation-greater than any counsure. He was quite certain that if war try in Europe except Belgium-were attriarrived, it would be proved that England's butable to the fact of her having enjoyed safety would be found not in the militia, external peace, and had been made in spite but in those "wooden walls" which had of the internal disquietude under which upheld her glory and protected her domin- she had suffered; and that external peace ions in the most perilous periods of her was very much due to the good underhistory. standing which she had enjoyed with this country. But he had not read history to so little effect as not to know that the population of a country were not always governed by their interest; but that on the contrary private pique, ambition, emulation, personal or national hatred, not to say the lust of conquest, would frequently throw the most friendly nations into antagonism; and it was against such an eventuality that we were now called upon to provide.

SIR HARRY VERNEY said, that it was the opinion of the greatest military authorities that the defences of the country required strengthening. If a foe were seen on our shores, the question would not be, what was the opinion of Members of that House, but what were the dispositions of the Duke of Wellington-where did Hardinge command-or to what part of the coast was Napier going? It was therefore their duty now to listen to the opinion of these men, who had at all times given good counsel to the nation; and then this peril would never arise. He did not mean to underrate the power and efficiency of the Royal Navy, for which noble service he had the most sincere admiration and respect; but he thought that we ought not to rely wholly on our Navy, but that we should take such measures as would enable this country to resist her enemies with equal effect on land or on sea. The most practical work that had been published on the state of our defences, and one which had attracted more attention than any other, was that written by a foreign officer, Baron Maurice, an independent gentleman, who was assuredly actuated by no feeling of hostility to this country. In this work Baron Maurice clearly showed that the proper way to attack this country would not be by endeavouring to land a single large army, but by sending out from the opposite coast several detachments of 10,000, or 15,000, or 20,000 men, who should endeavour to reach different parts of the coast of this island, and should have a common rendezvous. That was the sort of attack that we must prepare to meet, and not an invasion by a force of 50,000 or 60,000 men. It was worthy of remark that no statesman of any distinction had ventured to dispute the positions taken up by Baron Maurice, and amongst distinguished politicians of all parties there seemed to be absolutely unanimity on the necessity of strengthening, by some means or another, our military establishments. Captain Scobell

It was our duty to provide against the possibility of any danger arising from hostilities; and his conviction was, that the bravery of our population, and our geographical position, would enable us to do this perfectly. He did not think that service in the militia would be oppressive or distasteful to the people of this country. He could not forget that in the last war 400,000 men came forward to act as volunteers; he believed that the spirit of the country was not less patriotic now than then, and that we should have plenty of volunteers if the country were really exposed to danger. He would venture to suggest that a large militia force was difficult to raise and discipline except through the medium of a large army: the last time the militia was enrolled, there were plenty of non-commissioned officers ready to drill the men; and this was one of the reasons which caused that force to be so effective. He did not know whether they were all agreed as to the difference between a regular and a local militia. As he understood it, the regular militia was a force which might be embodied for five years, and which might be called out by the Government in time of war. They were now at war; and if the Bill were passed for a regular militia. it would be in the power of the Government to take every man in that militia and keep him for a certain number of days. The consequence was that he would be disabled from engaging in any other occupation. The local militia, on the contrary, would be embodied merely for the purpose of training in their own neighbourhood,

and would never be marched away from it | expended would put their fortresses in except in case of actual invasion, or when a state of preparation that would render there was peril of invasion. An hon. Gen- them invulnerable. The property of the tleman behind him had said that he should country was estimated at 200,000,0007., wish to have a Committee appointed to and it was calculated that an outlay of make an inquiry with respect to the na- 10,000,000l. or 12,000,000l. upon national defences; and a Committee or Com- tional defences would make the country inmission so appointed might make a report vulnerable against all attacks. This was that would be extremely satisfactory to the a very small assurance to secure the safety country. During the last war, we had of such an immense amount of wealth. 200,000 of the militia enrolled, exclusive He trusted they would endeavour to make of cavalry, foot guards, and colonial regi- their military force efficient, and at the ments; and the whole disposable force in same time as little burdensome and inthe country at that time was 600,000 men. convenient to the mass of the people as It was contended that service in the militia would be consistent with its efficiency. would corrupt the men who composed it, The hon. Baronet concluded by expressing and that therefore it would become dis- his intention to support the Bill. tasteful and unpopular with the public; but MR. GRANTLEY BERKELEY said, he did not believe it, because the examples he never saw the Opposition benches so set by the soldiers and non-commissioned chapfallen as they then were. The only officers in well conducted regiments of the appearance of gaiety among them in the line, was such as to inspire confidence and proceedings of last night was that disrespect in the force. He did not see any played by the hon. Member for Finsbury reason why a militia volunteer should have (Mr. Wakley), who, with a naïveté peculiar a bounty of 67., while the recruits of the line to himself, asked the Chancellor of the only got 41., or, in fact, less than 17., be- Exchequer to agree to the adjournment of cause more than 37. was stopped for their the debate, because he intended to offer kit. He believed they could not succeed in the measure every opposition in his power. reducing the expenditure for the military The hon. Member for the West Riding of forces as long as they remained divided Yorkshire (Mr. Cobden) said, that, with under the command of so many depart- the exception of the question of free trade, ments. There were no less than five de- there was no question that suited him so partments connected with the military es- well to go to the country with as the pretablishments of the country, and this ne- sent. It appeared, then, that the hon. cessarily led to considerable expense. The Gentleman must always have a political Infantry, Cavalry, and Guards were under grievance; for if he had not some meathe Horse Guards; the Artillery and En- sure to stir up the masses peculiarly at his gineers under the Ordnance; the Pen- command, his political life would become a sioners under the Secretary at War; the nonentity. He should like to know how Militia under the Secretary of State; the these petitions, which they had heard so Commissariat under the Treasury. He did much spoken of, were obtained. How was not believe that our national defences it that his county, which was one of conwere in such an efficient state as they siderable importance, had never sent him ought to be. He considered that railways a petition to present against the Bill. The would afford great facilities in the moving great manufacturing towns, in which the about the troops; but he should observe | hon. Member had so much power, were that there was a portion of the coast still the only places from which these petitions without the defence of a railway-namely, the country between Dorchester and Exeter. He did not believe their fortresses were in the state of preparation they should be in. He was informed that there were forts at Portsmouth and Plymouth, the bridges of which were so defective that it was impossible to carry a heavy gun over, without first shoring them up; and it was a shame that they should be spending money on that building (the Houses of Parliament), and in procuring comforts for themselves, when the sums so

emanated. The hon. Member for Man-
chester (Mr. Bright), when speaking of this
subject, like Bob Acres, felt his courage
oozing out of his finger ends. That hon.
Gentleman said that the Army and Navy
were forgotten that moment in favour of
what he called the blundering, miserable,
and undisciplined horde that would consti-
tute their militia force.
to mark well the difference of the language
used by the hon. Member in speaking of
the people when addressing these persons
out of doors, and when he spoke of them

The House ought