A. I beg to know whether I am to answer from my knowledge or suppositions or opinions in my own mind.

Ordered That Mr. C. withdraw.

On the question whether the last be a proper Question the yeas and nays being required by Mr. Marchant

So it was resolved in the affirmative.

Ordered That Mr. Carmichael attend at the [bar] on Wednesday next

at ten oclock to be farther examined."

Sir:

546. THE NORTH CAROLINA DELEGATES TO THE GOVERNOR OF NORTH CAROLINA (RICHARD CASWELL).1

PHILADELPHIA, Sept. 29th, 1778.

We are sorry to inform your Excellency, that we have not been able to send forward the money granted for the use of North Carolina. The very great demands on the Treasury previous to our Grant, have been the cause; however we are assured that it will be ready in a day or two at

5 See the Journals, Sept. 29, 30, and no. 549, post.

[546]1 N. C. St. Recs., XIII. 237, XXII. 984.

farthest. Congress have been alarmed that our enemy were about evacuating Rhode Island and New York, and that another attempt would be made on Charles Town by them. To prevent their getting possession of that place so important to our neighbors-it has been recommended to Virginia and North Carolina, to send some of their Militia to assist in the defence of So. Carolina. The high opinion entertained of your Excellency here, and the very great desire the Delegates of that State had, that you would accept the command, was the reason of the resolve relative to you, but in this you will no doubt consider the interest of North Carolina and the propriety of being absent from your Government. Gen'l Howe is directed to repair to Head Quarters and Gen'l Lincoln goes to South Carolina.3

Your Excellency's mo. Ob. humb. Servts.,

JOHN PENN,
CORNS. HARNETT,
JNO. WILLIAMS.

P. S. France has certainly declared war against Great Britain. 547. SAMUEL CHASE TO THE GOVERNOR OF MARYLAND (THOMAS JOHNSON, JR.).1

Dear Sir,

PHILADA. 29 Septr. 1778. 12 oClock

Immediately on the Receipt of your Letter of the 17th.2 to the Delegates of Maryland, I communicated the contents to Congress, and laid two Resolutions on the Table, one for a Permission for such Persons as you approve to export to the Eastern States, and another to extend the Émbargo. The first seemed to meet with the general approbation of the House. The second was approved by some and doubted by others. The two Resolves were referred to the consideration of a special Committee.

548. THE COMMITTEE OF ARRANGEMENT TO GEORGE WASHINGTON.1 Sir

When the Committee of Arrangement had the Honour of conferring with you on the Affairs of the Army it appeared to them that it was your Excellys. Opinion that no Prisoners or Deserters should be inlisted, and farther that such as had been inlisted should not join the Army: The Treachery of Armand's Corps about that Time having too fatally demon

2 See nos. 505, 523, 542, ante, 552, post.

3 See the Journals, Sept. 25. Cf. Caswell to Ashe, Oct. 28, in N. C. St. Recs., XIII. 255. [547] Hist. Soc. of Pa., Etting Coll., Signers, p. 16; Md. Hist. Soc., Red Book, V. 75 (copy). 2 The letter of the Maryland council to the delegates Sept. 17 is in Arch. of Md., XXI. 206. A letter of the same date to the President of Congress, read in Congress Sept. 24, is ibid., p. 205. See nos. 511, 517, 520, 521, ante, 552, 553, 556, post. No record is found in the Journals of the reference of the Maryland letter to a committee, but it is probable that it was referred to the committee on the memorial of Ephraim Blaine, etc. See the resolution of Oct. 2, and cf. the Journals, Sept. 8, 10-14, 24, 28, 29. [548]1 Library of Congress, Letters to Washington, XXVII. 79.

strated how little Dependance could be placed on such Characters. In Consequence of which the Committee whose Sentiments perfectly corresponded with what they supposed to be yours wrote to Congress representing the Necessity of putting an immediate Stop to such Inlistments and also of purging such Corps as were proceeding to join the Army under your Excellencys Command. In this Representation they did not expressly point out the Count Pulaski's Corps, but as it comprehends a considerable Number of those exceptionable Characters we fully intended to include it in the Reform we then recommended.

This Letter the Committee forwarded to Congress about 2 Weeks after their Arrival at Camp having first shown it to your Excelly. and received your Approbation of its Contents. Upon their Return to This City they found nothing had been done with Pulaskis Corps, but our Letter had inadvertently been referr'd to the Board of War who also mistaking the Nature of the Reference had wrote to your Excelly. for your farther Opinion on this subject. This Letter your Excelly. has answered so as to leave it doubtful whether for some Reasons not express'd you do not mean that Count Pulaski's Corps should go forward as it is, one half of which at least is composed of Deserters and Prisoners, and We are inclined to think that upon a strict Scrutiny there will be found a much greater Proportion. If this is the Case we presume your Excelly. has altered your Opinion at least with Respect to this Corps, either upon farther Consideration or upon some particular Circumstances not attended to when we had the Honour of conversing with you on this Subject. Your Excelly. will see by this State that the Committee find themselves in an aukward Situation as having represented the Necessity of a Measure founded upon your Opinion, in which some Gentlemen who favour the Employment of Prisoners and Deserters think we were not sufficiently warranted. And of Course the proposed Scrutiny of this Corps has been delayed and will in all Probability finally fail, unless some farther Advice is received from your Excelly. on this Head.

We must observe that in all Probability if the Corps should be purged there will remain sufficient to compose the original Establishment of 68 Horse and 200 Foot, As the Count has extended his Numbers far beyond it, by adding what he calls supernumerary Troops and Companies.

The Committee are sensible of the Value of your Excellys. Time but as the Determination of this Matter will probably lead to the Settlement of other Corps of like Character, and they are attended with a very heavy Expence, we trust you will not think a few Moment's unusefully employed on the Subject.2

With the most respectful Sentiments and very sincere Regard We are Your Excellys. most Obed. Hbbl Servt,

PHILAD. Septr. 30, 1778

Jos: REED
Chairman

2 The letter from the committee of arrangement to Congress referred to in this letter to Washington was doubtless that of Sept. 3, read in Congress Sept. 7, and referred to the board of war. Concerning the purging of Pulaski's corps, see the Journals, Sept. 21, 29. Washington's reply to this letter, Oct. 6, is in Writings (ed. Sparks), VI. 85. See also no. 177, note 2, ante. For the constitution of the committee see no. 512, ante.

549. EXAMINATION OF WILLIAM CARMICHAEL.1

Wednesda[y] The last question proposed 2

[September 30, 1778.]

Although I think the house by their determination has put me into a very delicate and to me disagreeable situation, as I am desirous of giving the house every information, I am ready to answer the question, provided the question relates to apprehensions that may have arisen on w[ha]t I conceived to be fact at the time.

A. I do.

Q. What were the instances

A. The instance I allude to particularly was the equipping a vessel of war where I apprehended the public money had been appropriated to private uses

Q. What vessel was it you allude to

A. It was a vessel intended to be equipped in the Mediterranean partly at the expence of the public, and partly of individuals

Q. The name of the Capt and of the vessel

A. The name of the capt intended to be employed was Bell. As there were vessels bought which were afterwards obliged to be given up there was no name given any of them that I recollect

Q. From w[ha]t circumstances do you apprehend that there was a misap[plication?]

A. From this circumstance that Mr. D. having recd. Money from M. Beaumarchais which I conceived to be public money did appropriate it to private uses, that is in the purchase of those vessels as far as regarded individuals

Q. Why did you suppose that to be public Money

A. Because M. Beaumarchais, having as I apprehended advanced before to the public to a large amount, I thought it was likewise on the public credit he advanced this sum

Q. Are you clear there were more vessels than one bought in the Mediter [ranean?]

A. There was but one intended to be bought but the person employed bought two as I understood.

Q. Who compelled the giving up of the vessels

A. I understood the State of Genoa had interposed and compelled the purchaser to restore them to the orig[inal] proprietors

Q. What were the names of private persons that were to have been concerned w[it]h the public 3 in those vessels

A. I do not recollect all the private names

[Q.] Do you recollect any

A. I understood M. Beaumarchais was to have been concerned

Q. Do you recollect any other

[549] Papers Cont. Cong., no. 54, vol. II., f. 178; Seventy-Six Society, Papers in Relation to the Case of Silas Deane, p. 144; N. Y. Hist. Soc., Collections: Deane Papers, II. 493.

2 See no. 545, ante.

3 These three words were substituted for "in the purchase of ", erased.

A. I understood that Mr. Thomas Morris was to have been concerned for others, but who those others were I cannot positively say

Q. Was Mr. Deane to have been concerned in his private capacity
A. I do not know that he was

[Q.] Did you understand or were you informed that Mr. D. was to have been concerned in his private capacity

A. I did not receive such information as to induce me to believe he was concerned

[Q] If you did not believe that Mr. D. was concerned in his private capacity in those vessels what did you mean when you said that you apprehended the public money was applied to private purposes in that instance

[A.] I meant that I thought Mr. D. had applied the public money to supply the deficiencies of the money that others were to have advanced but did not towards the purpose of fitting out these vessels

[Q.] On what grounds did you think that Mr. D. meant to supply those deficiencies

[4.] From conversations with diverse persons and other occurrences at that period

The question being read, On what grounds etc., and the answer thereto, Mr. C. gave this explanation

The idea I meant to convey to the house was this-I apprehended Mr. Deane had applied the money which I conceived to be public to a private use. I judge that I had my information of Mr. Dean's rect. of the money from Mr. Beaumarcha[i]s, Mr. Deane himself and others. But that this information was merely of the fact that he received it, not whether it was public or private money which he had received and so applied.*

[Q.] What persons

A. I apprehend Mr. D. and Mr. Beaumarchais were two of the persons that informed me at that time

[Q.] Were the other Commissioners or either of them acquainted with this transaction

[A.] I apprehend Dr. Franklin was acquainted with the fitting out these vessels. I cannot charge my memory whether Mr. A. Lee was then at Paris or not

[Q] Are you sure that Mr. D. and Mr. B. were two of the persons with whom you had the conversations you before mentioned.

The house having agreed that I should answer from my apprehensions I have answered so, not that I am certain as to the fact. I know from conversations with Mr. B. that he advanced sums of Money. I knew from Mr. D. that he had rcd. sums and from these and other circumstances I apprehended there was to be a misapplication of public money, but I am not certain.5

4 These two paragraphs are written on the back of the preceding sheet without indication of the place of insertion, but they properly belong at this point. In the printed text the preliminary sentence is, “The last question and answer being read, Mr. Ċ. gave this explanation".

5 This paragraph in the Thomson minutes is crossed out as if stricken from the record, but as it is a part of the actual record it is here retained.